Here's a conversation I had with someone on YouTube last week about professionalism vs. rock 'n' roll attitude when it comes to...rock 'n' roll. I'd love to hear your thoughts. This Vivian Girls video was the cause of the debate.


El135o
Why does the tempo slow down so drastically at the intro? It drops by about 10 BPM as soon as the drums kick in.

ptduff
Listen carefully. The guitar doesn't change a bit. I really like the contrast between the fast guitar and the mid tempo drums.

El135o
I _did_ listen carefully--that's how I picked up on it in the first place. And no, the guitar and bass are forced to slow right down as soon as the drums kick in. I've heard the same thing on Hendrix live stuff.

Anyway, whatever grooves ya. But around here, "the contrast between the fast guitar and the mid tempo drums" would demand more rehearsal before going to tape. Often it means the difference between selling 1,000 copies and 100,000 copies.

josta59
A lot of fans appreciate the rawness. I know what you're saying; my band sounds a lot like these girls. But I love those little details, where you can tell they said, "screw it, this is rock 'n' roll." So I see what you're saying, but it depends on how "corporate" you are. I hope I can experience a tenth of these girls' success!

El135o
Nah, I don't think rock'n'roll allows you to be unrehearsed and unable to stick to a tempo.

I guess audiences are more discerning where I am, 'cause a band that can't keep a beat from the get-go isn't gonna be able to compete here.

And if I start a song at 130 BPM and the drummer immediately slows to 120, I'd have a talk with that drummer or look for another.

Professionalism and ability have NOTHING to do with being "corporate," sheeeeeesh. Saying "screw it" is the lazy way out.

josta59
I can't say I agree, and the very fact that you used the word "compete" tells me that we're on very different sides of the rock 'n' roll equation. Sonic Youth knew nothing when they started. It's these self-taught bands that keep rock pure. The ones who are competing and trying to get ahead are doing nothing for anyone. Professionalism? In rock 'n' roll? Yeah, screw it.

El135o
If audiences in a given scene dislike bands who can't play well, those bands must learn how to play well--or be ignored. The scene where I am is summed up thusly: "piss into it at your own risk."

I have no problem with a band that stumbles onto great ideas by accident. But it's the bands who lack talent and ability that often hide behind phony "DIY" idealism.

Professionalism: thinkers get by better than shruggers. You tryin' to say that rock bands don't compete for attention? Come onnnn.

josta59
Well, I have to admit, I have not quite jumped into the "fray" yet. Maybe I have a lot to learn. I'm speaking from the point of view of one who has created and recorded but not yet tried to sell anything. I actually like some of what you said there about phony DIY idealism and thinkers vs. shruggers. I think I'll keep that in mind as I work on my album. Fun debate!

El135o
It's easy: the good mistakes will make people grin and like you; the bad mistakes will make people walk away.

As for Vivian Girls, I don't know if they've made a bad or good mistake on ths song, but I wouldn't put out a recording where the tempo sagged at the intro. A faltering intro means faltering audience interest, but that's just my experience around here.

Try putting a metronome to your favorite artists and watch the tempo. There'll be give and take, but I bet it'll be the GOOD kind!


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